MEGATHREAD for Player Ratings

JUNE 16th UPDATE Hi all, as of 20 minutes ago, player ratings have been updated. This resolved a few systematic issues, notably some PFR AV blind spots (no historic sack stats) and inter-team player ratings. For instance, Rodgers Steelers/Jets stints were rated too highly, and Tom Brady's Bucs stint too low. I read through all the comments here to make sure they are addressed (even if I don't respond directly). THANK YOU ALL FOR PLAYING, I'll continue shipping improvements

Was checking, and I guess I never realized Watt is 0.9 above Ray Lewis. Watt was great, but Lewis is considered the greatest ever at his position. Obviously, a sack/tackle comparison cannot be made due to the difference in position, but Lewis has 19 FF, 20 FR, and 31 INTs to Watt’s 27, 17, and 2. Watt does have one more DPoY to put him at 3 to Lewis’ 2, but Lewis has 2 Super Bowls (including an MVP), 7 more PBs, and 4 more APs, along with being a part of one of the most dominating defenses of all time. I think Watt was amazing, but Lewis was in an echelon reached by few.

Thanks for adding Gifford, but still got a bit to say: Gifford had 77 total TDs to Barber’s 68 (if you count his punt return) in less games, is a HOFer, has an NFL championship, 8 PBs to Barber’s 3, 5 All-Pros to Barber’s 1, and most importantly, an MVP. Thank you so much for adding him, but him at 86 compared to Barber’s 94 seems reversed for a bonafide Hall-of-Famer against a solid Hall-of-Very-Gooder. I also think Bettis at 90 (unless he’s been raised today) compared to Barber’s 94 is also off, Bettis has 94 TDs, HOF, Super Bowl, 6 PBs, and 3 APs.

I don’t think Justin Jefferson is anywhere near Cris Carter. Yes, he has an OPoY and Carter doesn’t, but he wouldn’t if he played in an era with Barry Sanders or Jerry Rice, either. He has less than a third of Carter’s TDs. If he retired right now he wouldn’t be considered on Carter’s level. I think ratings should be based on what they have done, not what they could do.

On the same note as Spielman, LC Greenwood also at 88 is a crying shame. 4 consecutive PBs (6 total), 2 consecutive AP1s, and 5 DPoY votes (lost to Joe Greene’s 13) warrant more, especially considering he won 4 Super Bowls, with the unofficial record of 5 sacks in those 4 games (weren’t an official stat), including an official record of 4 in a single Super Bowl.

I think Tim Krumrie may be a tad low. Definitely wasn’t great, but two consecutive Pro Bowls in years he got AP2 and then AP1, along with 3 DPoY votes to me is upper 70s.

Chris Spielman for the Lions seems incredibly low. 4 pro bowls, 3 all pros, 1994 tackle leader, and franchise leader in tackles. I get the Lions were bad but he was a beast.

Given his accolades, I think 93 may be a tad low for Johnny Robinson. Also, please add Frank Gifford. Getting annihilated when I get the Giants and only classic RB is open

Tarkenton with the Giants at 92 over Tarkenton with the Vikings at 91 is also weird, given his Super Bowl appearances and majority of his HOF career there

Franco Harris made 9 consecutive Pro Bowls, was ORoY, 2x AP, and garnered an MVP vote. That level of HOF consistency, All-⁠70s team, 4 Super Bowls, and a Super Bowl MVP deserve more than an 88.

Tarkenton with the Giants (92) above Terry Bradshaw (91) is a little surprising. I get he had a defense, but Bradshaw was undeniably great

I’d argue Natrone Means was better than Ronnie Harmon

Not saying Ed Reed was good with Houston, but 52 feels like he could come back now and be a 52

Micah Parsons being above TJ Watt also seems odd. Watt has more stats, more APs, more Pro Bowls, and a DPoY. Parsons so far has shown insane potential but has never put it all together yet, so for him to be in the same party as guaranteed HOFers like Watt and Garrett is odd.

missing jim thorpe - giants

For the Giants, I understand Tarketon’s 4 Pro Bowls raise him, but Tittle had 3, 2 AP1s, and finished second once for MVP voting and first another time. His 87 to Tarkenton’s 92 feels exaggerated.

John Randall at 95 feels too low for such a destructive DT. Strong case for him being top 5 DT

Bettis has 2000 more yards and 30 more TDs than Fred Taylor, along with the HOF, a Super Bowl, 5 more Pro Bowls, and 2 more All Pros. I think having both at 90 is odd

Charlie McNeil was a 5x AFL All-Star and 5x First Team All-AFL, won the AFL Championship. It’s not counted on PFR for some reason, probably because it was AFL, but he is way better than a 70-something

Rodney Harrison w/Chargers at 76 seems low

Takeo Spikes at 65 is way too low

Weddle is good, but I don’t know if he’s 9 OVR better than Derwin James. He has 7 more INTs, 2 less Pro Bowls, 12.5 less sacks, same APs, in 2 more years (if you do not count the year James missed, still 1 more if you do). Feels like the Chargers career is arguably equal and the peak is a little lower to me.

Merriman at 71 is way too low. Not saying he’s elite, but his peak was three consecutive Pro Bowls, DRoY, 3rd place for DPoY, and an AP1 and AP2.

feel like either Earl Thomas or Kam Chancellor (whichever one is in the 70s, I think it's Kam) is way to low. That's a mid to high 80s IMO

Jessie Bates being above Adam Jones for the Bengals seems iffy to me, given Jones’ longevity and Pro Bowl appearance compared to Bates

Todd Gurley at 90 while Clinton Portis is an 85 hurts my soul

Don’t think Childress is 10 higher than Kearse

Richard Seymour now being the top front 7 for the bridge period for the Raiders? I don't even think he played more than a year during that bridge period. You had it right with Darrell Russell.

Joe Klecko now as the new top front 7 for the Jets at 85? What happened to Gastineau? Did he lose points?? If Klecko is 85 and Gastineau stayed at 89, I think that's at least justifiable.

I’d consider Roman Gabriel better than 82 given his era, and Norm Van Brocklin isn’t in the system.

Maxx Crosby at 78 feels low

Also just tested out Steelers Rodgers and 84.2 seems high for someone who played 1 season and was a bona-fide bottom 5 QB. That being within 5.7 points of Bucs Brady seems like it needs correction in at least one direction. Also thanks for the game, it's my favorite 17-⁠0/82-⁠0/Whatever-⁠0 variant and we appreciate all the time you're putting into it!

Rodgers is too high. Higher than Bucs Brady, Broncos Peyton + Brees/Favre is wrong. 98 is all-time-great status, not 4th-best-QB-of-his-generation, he should be 94 at best if Brees/Favre/DenverPeyton are 96s. Also Tampa Brady being arguably the best QB in the league for 2/3 years - including a ring and a 5,000+ yard 40+TD should-have-been-MVP season should be higher than an 89.9 too, regardless of where Rodgers is.

I personally consider Del Shofner to be the best Giants WR ever, but definitely pre-⁠1995. Could he get added in too eventually?

I understand the reasoning, but I deeply disagree with Lamar Jackson being so much higher than Ben Roethlisberger. Also think that Jonathan Taylor being so far beneath Todd Gurley while CMC is ranked obscenely high with only a few years with the Niners is odd.

I think Josh Gordon should be higher than a 71. He was a first-team All-Pro! That's a pretty dominant peak even if he didn't stick around for long.

Okoye at 73 while Mike Garrett is an 82 and Abner Haynes is an 85 also seems odd to me, given a stat comparison and award comparison.

I know Willie Gault isn’t a HOFer, but 71 seems low. I was hoping upper-middle 70s.

Not saying he’s great, but Kearse is a 78. Meanwhile, Bobby Wagner with the Commanders is an 87, and that doesn’t seem proportional, given the lack of time with them.

Charlie Joiner as the top pick for the BENGALS at WR for pre-⁠1995? At least Cris Collinsworth should be worth more than him, but ultimately Issac Curtis or Eddie Brown should get that spot. Joiner didn't get to his HOF peak until joining the Chargers.

Troy Drayton above Randy McMichael for the Dolphins surprised me

Le’Veon Bell being ranked above 9x Pro Bowl Super Bowl MVP Franco Harris also feels wrong

Lynn Swann was a Super Bowl MVP and 4x champ, and is still like 15 points lower than Roddy White

Ralph Ortega is a 90, had 4 seasons with the Falcons in the 70s, no awards, 1.0 sack. John Abraham is a 78, 7 years with the Falcons, 25 FF, 68.5 sacks, one AP1 and one AP2 along with a Pro Bowl. Ortega isn’t in the HOF nor does he deserve to be, whereas a case can be made for Abraham. Not sure why there’s a big difference or how my opponent knew about it, but even after googling, still seems incorrect.

Not saying Minkah Fitzpatrick is amazing, but a 63 for any 5x Pro Bowl, 3x AP1 feels low, even if only one of those was with the dolphins.

Today’s daily challenge showed me a few oddities, in my personal opinion: Javon Walker being 5.6 above Donald Driver as a Packers receiver when Driver is sort of “the man” for that bridge era (also has more than 4x as many yards) Aaron Jones averaged more yards from scrimmage per season and played way longer with the Pack than Lacy did, yet is 2.3 lower. Keith Jackson has less than 700 yards in two years as a Packer, Paul Coffman has 3 pro bowls and 4200 yards as a Packer. Was shocked by Jackson being 9.4 higher given I had to Google him to see if he ever did play as a Packer.

Could just be me, but Csonka being an 83 feels a little low given his stats per-game in that era

Frank Gifford was MVP, doesn’t appear for the Giants

For TEN, AJ Brown had more TDs in one of his 3 seasons than Hopkins did total. Weird that Hopkins is ranked higher than him.

Paul Hornung's rating is weirdly low

Robert Mathis at 71

Isaac Bruce vs Torry Holt - I always considered Bruce the better player growing up. Holt clears Bruce in most per-game stats and year-end awards (PBs and all pros), but also played with better QBs