MEGATHREAD for Player Ratings

JUNE 16th UPDATE Hi all, as of 20 minutes ago, player ratings have been updated. This resolved a few systematic issues, notably some PFR AV blind spots (no historic sack stats) and inter-team player ratings. For instance, Rodgers Steelers/Jets stints were rated too highly, and Tom Brady's Bucs stint too low. I read through all the comments here to make sure they are addressed (even if I don't respond directly). THANK YOU ALL FOR PLAYING, I'll continue shipping improvements

No Michael Hoomanawanui for the Patriots? Tried to enter him during bullseye only to be told he has never played for them.

Drew Bree’s atleast 97 Peyton manning on colts should be 98.2 Why is Justin Jefferson rated higher then jamar Julio jones should be a tad higher Josh should not be a 95 Micheal Thomas should atleast be 91 Tiki barber needs to be higher aswell Darrell revis should be higher aswell considering he is better then Richard Sherman who is a 97

Suggestions: Drew Brees - should at least be a 97 Dez Bryant - should at least be an 85 Julian Edelman - should at least be an 85 Falcons Michael Vick should at least be an 80 Broncos Von Miller should be a 90 at least, dude had a Super Bowl MVP and was unbelievably dominant Vince Wilfork and Richard Seymour on the Patriots are too low. Should both be a 90 at least. Patriots Darrelle Revis is way too low, he helped the team win a Super Bowl - should be a 90 at least Giants Odell Beckham Jr. at anything below an 87 is criminal Christian McCaffrey over Roger Craig and Frank Gore for the 49ers is criminal. Both Craig and Gore should be above McCaffrey Rodney Harrison is way underrated on both Patriots and Chargers Josh Norman Panthers needs to be higher. He was once seen as one of the most dominant corners in the league and not even being an 80 is disrespectful. Randy Moss on the Patriots being lower than his rating on the Vikings is insane. He arguably played his best football on the Patriots. The two ratings should be even. Josh Allen is simply way too high. To put him on nearly the same level as Drew Brees is disrespectful. The modern QBs are simply overrated. Jackson, Allen, Burrow, etc. need to be taken down a peg. Brock Purdy should at least be an 80. That's all I have so far, but will surely have more in the future.

Just curious why Lionel Taylor isn't available as a pre-95 Broncos WR. Thanks

I feel like Julian Edelman is too low as an 80. Especially with Wes Welker being a 90.

Dez Bryant (Cowboys) – 82.2 I think Dez’s Cowboys rating may be significantly too low, especially compared with A.J. Brown’s 87.2 rating for Tennessee. If these ratings are based on what a player accomplished with the specific franchise, A.J. Brown played only three seasons with the Titans (2019–2021): A.J. Brown – Titans career (3 seasons): 185 receptions, 2,995 yards, 24 TDs in 43 games Dez played eight seasons with Dallas. Just taking his peak three-year stretch (2012–2014): Dez Bryant – peak 3 Cowboys seasons: 273 receptions, 3,935 yards, 41 TDs in 48 games So Dez’s three-year peak produced 940 more yards and 17 more TDs than Brown’s entire three-year Titans career. Dez also averaged about 82 receiving yards and 0.85 receiving TDs per game during that stretch, versus roughly 70 yards and 0.56 TDs for Brown. And that’s only three of Dez’s eight seasons in Dallas. For his full Cowboys career, Dez had 531 receptions, 7,459 receiving yards and 73 receiving TDs. He made three Pro Bowls and was first-team All-Pro in 2014 after leading the NFL with 16 receiving TDs. I’m not arguing that A.J. Brown’s 87.2 Titans rating is too high. I think it provides a useful comparison showing that Dez at 82.2 is too low. If Brown’s three-year Titans stint warrants an 87.2, it’s difficult to understand Dez being five points lower when his best three Dallas seasons clearly surpassed Brown’s Tennessee production, and Dez then added another five seasons of production for the Cowboys.

Mike Tice played for the Seahawks before 1995, but he doesn't seem to be an option. I've gotten screwed by not being able to figure out a pre-1994 hawks TE multiple times until I looked up another one.

Andrew Luck at 79? And Robert Brazile. A HOF player with great stats.

Drew Brees being only a 95.6 is way too low. He had five 5,000-yard seasons, while no other QB has more than two, and seven seasons completing at least 70% of his passes, showing an unmatched combination of volume and accuracy. He retired second all-time in passing yards, won a Super Bowl and Super Bowl MVP, and completely changed the Saints franchise after Hurricane Katrina, helping bring a championship to a city that had even faced uncertainty about keeping its team. If championships matter, he has one over Marino; if stats and dominance matter, his résumé beats several QBs rated above him. Brees belongs in the top-five conversation and should be around a 97–98 overall, not 95.6.

DEANGELO HALL AT 69 IS A HORRIFIC RATING. YALL HAD QUINTON DUNBAR OVER HIM.

I feel like Drew Brees is way underrated. The fact that he’s only a 95.6 seems egregious considering statistically he’s the 3rd best QB all-time

For me, I feel that off-ball LBs seem universally rated lower than what I'd expect. Ray Lewis, regarded by many as the best off ball linebacker of all time, is not even a 99 but a 98.5. The same goes with all off-ball LBs like Luke Kuechly at 95.5 and Bobby Wagner at 95.7. I know this is a nit-pick, but to me, I would think that the off-ball LBs could be maybe 1 or 2 points higher.

Michael Vick a 76 with the Falcons is a travesty

Comparison of two defensive back's career stats: Player 1: 55gp, 12 interceptions, 8 forced fumbles, 2 sacks, 243 tackles, AV 34, two pro bowls, one 2nd team all-pro, 4th in defensive rookie of the year Player 2: 50gp, 6 interceptions, 2 forced fumbles, 3.5 sacks, 307 tackles, AV 35, two pro bowls, two 1st team all-pros, one defensive player of the year award, super bowl champion Player 1 is Sean Taylor, rated 95 Player 2 is Bob Sanders, rated 86 I know Sean Taylor's career was tragically taken away way too soon, but that 95 feels more like a projection of what he could have been and not the player he actually was. Bob Sanders played in the same era and didn't play very long either, and he accomplished way more. I would personally swap their ratings, but I think it would make sense to at least put Bob at the same level as Sean Taylor, regardless of what the exact number should be.

Just a quick question about Jay Cutler vs Caleb Williams. I just watched a BIG GAME final where in game 3, both players picked the exact same team, except for one team picking Caleb Williams and one team picking Jay Cutler. According to the head to head, both QBs are worth 75.0, however, the team that picked Caleb Williams finished with a 91.3 and the team with Jay Cutler finished with a 90.7. It is worth noting that the team that won had finished substantially quicker than the other team. If you want to check for yourself, this happened in the July 19th game at 1pm. Thanks!

AJ Green at 86 seems low. I feel like he should be in the low 90s.

Jerome Brown as a 73 for the Eagles seems criminally undervalued

Charles Tillman as only an 81 is low

Fred Dean with the niners is low

Leslie O'Neal at an 83 vs Khalil Mack at an 88 as Chargers seems way out of balance. O'Neal is the all-time franchise leader in sacks and played longer in the franchise. Mack had one season with double digit sacks (albeit a monster 17) in 4 seasons with the franchise, while O'neal had multiple 10 digit plus seasons. If anything those scores should be reversed.

Warren Moon as the top bridge option at 90 for the vikings over Daunte Culpepper? Moon played two years during the bridge period while Culpepper basically was the bridge period for the Vikings!

Jets Davante Adams at 51 (!!) is crazy to me. He wasn't there for long but he was perfectly productive despite the Jets of it all. It shouldn't stray so far from his Raiders rating.

I’m a Bengals fan but I’m surprised by James Harrison being so low for the Steelers. It feels like he’s the combo of peak and longevity that easily breaks into at least low 90’s which could make him useful for bridge!

Drew Brees should be at least a 97 considering his 2nd in all passing categories.

CMC over Roger Craig with the Niners is just ridiculous to me given the fact that Craig was the first 1000/1000 back, a feat not repeated for 14 years with Faulk in a much more pass heavy era, even less pass heavy than McCaffery in 2019 (when he wasn’t a Niner). CMC hasn’t played long enough to put up Craig-like longevity stats, and if this was his peak with the Niners, he’s about the same as Craig; minus pioneering the dual-threat back in a new offensive system while winning three Super Bowls.

Was checking, and I guess I never realized Watt is 0.9 above Ray Lewis. Watt was great, but Lewis is considered the greatest ever at his position. Obviously, a sack/tackle comparison cannot be made due to the difference in position, but Lewis has 19 FF, 20 FR, and 31 INTs to Watt’s 27, 17, and 2. Watt does have one more DPoY to put him at 3 to Lewis’ 2, but Lewis has 2 Super Bowls (including an MVP), 7 more PBs, and 4 more APs, along with being a part of one of the most dominating defenses of all time. I think Watt was amazing, but Lewis was in an echelon reached by few.

Thanks for adding Gifford, but still got a bit to say: Gifford had 77 total TDs to Barber’s 68 (if you count his punt return) in less games, is a HOFer, has an NFL championship, 8 PBs to Barber’s 3, 5 All-Pros to Barber’s 1, and most importantly, an MVP. Thank you so much for adding him, but him at 86 compared to Barber’s 94 seems reversed for a bonafide Hall-of-Famer against a solid Hall-of-Very-Gooder. I also think Bettis at 90 (unless he’s been raised today) compared to Barber’s 94 is also off, Bettis has 94 TDs, HOF, Super Bowl, 6 PBs, and 3 APs.

I don’t think Justin Jefferson is anywhere near Cris Carter. Yes, he has an OPoY and Carter doesn’t, but he wouldn’t if he played in an era with Barry Sanders or Jerry Rice, either. He has less than a third of Carter’s TDs. If he retired right now he wouldn’t be considered on Carter’s level. I think ratings should be based on what they have done, not what they could do.

On the same note as Spielman, LC Greenwood also at 88 is a crying shame. 4 consecutive PBs (6 total), 2 consecutive AP1s, and 5 DPoY votes (lost to Joe Greene’s 13) warrant more, especially considering he won 4 Super Bowls, with the unofficial record of 5 sacks in those 4 games (weren’t an official stat), including an official record of 4 in a single Super Bowl.

I think Tim Krumrie may be a tad low. Definitely wasn’t great, but two consecutive Pro Bowls in years he got AP2 and then AP1, along with 3 DPoY votes to me is upper 70s.

Chris Spielman for the Lions seems incredibly low. 4 pro bowls, 3 all pros, 1994 tackle leader, and franchise leader in tackles. I get the Lions were bad but he was a beast.

Given his accolades, I think 93 may be a tad low for Johnny Robinson. Also, please add Frank Gifford. Getting annihilated when I get the Giants and only classic RB is open

Tarkenton with the Giants at 92 over Tarkenton with the Vikings at 91 is also weird, given his Super Bowl appearances and majority of his HOF career there

Franco Harris made 9 consecutive Pro Bowls, was ORoY, 2x AP, and garnered an MVP vote. That level of HOF consistency, All-70s team, 4 Super Bowls, and a Super Bowl MVP deserve more than an 88.

Tarkenton with the Giants (92) above Terry Bradshaw (91) is a little surprising. I get he had a defense, but Bradshaw was undeniably great

I’d argue Natrone Means was better than Ronnie Harmon

Not saying Ed Reed was good with Houston, but 52 feels like he could come back now and be a 52

Micah Parsons being above TJ Watt also seems odd. Watt has more stats, more APs, more Pro Bowls, and a DPoY. Parsons so far has shown insane potential but has never put it all together yet, so for him to be in the same party as guaranteed HOFers like Watt and Garrett is odd.

missing jim thorpe - giants

For the Giants, I understand Tarketon’s 4 Pro Bowls raise him, but Tittle had 3, 2 AP1s, and finished second once for MVP voting and first another time. His 87 to Tarkenton’s 92 feels exaggerated.

John Randall at 95 feels too low for such a destructive DT. Strong case for him being top 5 DT

Bettis has 2000 more yards and 30 more TDs than Fred Taylor, along with the HOF, a Super Bowl, 5 more Pro Bowls, and 2 more All Pros. I think having both at 90 is odd

Charlie McNeil was a 5x AFL All-Star and 5x First Team All-AFL, won the AFL Championship. It’s not counted on PFR for some reason, probably because it was AFL, but he is way better than a 70-something

Rodney Harrison w/Chargers at 76 seems low

Takeo Spikes at 65 is way too low

Weddle is good, but I don’t know if he’s 9 OVR better than Derwin James. He has 7 more INTs, 2 less Pro Bowls, 12.5 less sacks, same APs, in 2 more years (if you do not count the year James missed, still 1 more if you do). Feels like the Chargers career is arguably equal and the peak is a little lower to me.

Merriman at 71 is way too low. Not saying he’s elite, but his peak was three consecutive Pro Bowls, DRoY, 3rd place for DPoY, and an AP1 and AP2.

feel like either Earl Thomas or Kam Chancellor (whichever one is in the 70s, I think it's Kam) is way to low. That's a mid to high 80s IMO

Jessie Bates being above Adam Jones for the Bengals seems iffy to me, given Jones’ longevity and Pro Bowl appearance compared to Bates

Todd Gurley at 90 while Clinton Portis is an 85 hurts my soul

Don’t think Childress is 10 higher than Kearse

Richard Seymour now being the top front 7 for the bridge period for the Raiders? I don't even think he played more than a year during that bridge period. You had it right with Darrell Russell.

Joe Klecko now as the new top front 7 for the Jets at 85? What happened to Gastineau? Did he lose points?? If Klecko is 85 and Gastineau stayed at 89, I think that's at least justifiable.

I’d consider Roman Gabriel better than 82 given his era, and Norm Van Brocklin isn’t in the system.

Maxx Crosby at 78 feels low

Also just tested out Steelers Rodgers and 84.2 seems high for someone who played 1 season and was a bona-fide bottom 5 QB. That being within 5.7 points of Bucs Brady seems like it needs correction in at least one direction. Also thanks for the game, it's my favorite 17-0/82-0/Whatever-0 variant and we appreciate all the time you're putting into it!

Rodgers is too high. Higher than Bucs Brady, Broncos Peyton + Brees/Favre is wrong. 98 is all-time-great status, not 4th-best-QB-of-his-generation, he should be 94 at best if Brees/Favre/DenverPeyton are 96s. Also Tampa Brady being arguably the best QB in the league for 2/3 years - including a ring and a 5,000+ yard 40+TD should-have-been-MVP season should be higher than an 89.9 too, regardless of where Rodgers is.

I personally consider Del Shofner to be the best Giants WR ever, but definitely pre-1995. Could he get added in too eventually?

I understand the reasoning, but I deeply disagree with Lamar Jackson being so much higher than Ben Roethlisberger. Also think that Jonathan Taylor being so far beneath Todd Gurley while CMC is ranked obscenely high with only a few years with the Niners is odd.

I think Josh Gordon should be higher than a 71. He was a first-team All-Pro! That's a pretty dominant peak even if he didn't stick around for long.

Okoye at 73 while Mike Garrett is an 82 and Abner Haynes is an 85 also seems odd to me, given a stat comparison and award comparison.

I know Willie Gault isn’t a HOFer, but 71 seems low. I was hoping upper-middle 70s.

Not saying he’s great, but Kearse is a 78. Meanwhile, Bobby Wagner with the Commanders is an 87, and that doesn’t seem proportional, given the lack of time with them.

Charlie Joiner as the top pick for the BENGALS at WR for pre-1995? At least Cris Collinsworth should be worth more than him, but ultimately Issac Curtis or Eddie Brown should get that spot. Joiner didn't get to his HOF peak until joining the Chargers.

Troy Drayton above Randy McMichael for the Dolphins surprised me

Le’Veon Bell being ranked above 9x Pro Bowl Super Bowl MVP Franco Harris also feels wrong

Lynn Swann was a Super Bowl MVP and 4x champ, and is still like 15 points lower than Roddy White

Ralph Ortega is a 90, had 4 seasons with the Falcons in the 70s, no awards, 1.0 sack. John Abraham is a 78, 7 years with the Falcons, 25 FF, 68.5 sacks, one AP1 and one AP2 along with a Pro Bowl. Ortega isn’t in the HOF nor does he deserve to be, whereas a case can be made for Abraham. Not sure why there’s a big difference or how my opponent knew about it, but even after googling, still seems incorrect.

Not saying Minkah Fitzpatrick is amazing, but a 63 for any 5x Pro Bowl, 3x AP1 feels low, even if only one of those was with the dolphins.

Today’s daily challenge showed me a few oddities, in my personal opinion: Javon Walker being 5.6 above Donald Driver as a Packers receiver when Driver is sort of “the man” for that bridge era (also has more than 4x as many yards) Aaron Jones averaged more yards from scrimmage per season and played way longer with the Pack than Lacy did, yet is 2.3 lower. Keith Jackson has less than 700 yards in two years as a Packer, Paul Coffman has 3 pro bowls and 4200 yards as a Packer. Was shocked by Jackson being 9.4 higher given I had to Google him to see if he ever did play as a Packer.

Could just be me, but Csonka being an 83 feels a little low given his stats per-game in that era

Frank Gifford was MVP, doesn’t appear for the Giants

For TEN, AJ Brown had more TDs in one of his 3 seasons than Hopkins did total. Weird that Hopkins is ranked higher than him.

Paul Hornung's rating is weirdly low

Robert Mathis at 71

Isaac Bruce vs Torry Holt - I always considered Bruce the better player growing up. Holt clears Bruce in most per-game stats and year-end awards (PBs and all pros), but also played with better QBs